JY: Welcome to Gear Talk, a podcast on Biblical theology. Today, Jason DeRouchie and Tom Kelby once again talk about the Second Exodus. It seems the biblical authors used exodus language repeatedly, but their attention wasn’t just on the first exodus. They were looking ahead.

TK: Welcome to Gear Talk. Last time we were together, we talked about the second exodus and when we got off the air, Jason and I were just reflecting on—Oh I was just thinking about this passage or that and I wish we’d talked about this. And part of the fun of this is we get to talk about those things. So, today we are going to talk about some of the things we didn’t talk about in our last episode about the second exodus. So, Jason, what were you thinking when we finished last time?

JD: Well, one of the elements I really wanted to draw attention to was the fact that we don’t just have Isaiah interpreting the first exodus in a certain way. But we actually have Moses himself from the start, setting us up to read the exodus as a foreshadow of greater deliverances, so I wanted to focus on that.

TK: OK. And I was just thinking, if you didn’t listen to that episode, we were talking about particularly the song in Exodus chapter 15, the song that celebrates the Exodus event. And what you’re saying is that—I think what you’re saying, Jason—is that Moses is seeing ahead further than we may expect he’s seeing.

JD: That’s right. This relates to our third podcast, where we questioned how much did the prophets know. And I want to argue from Exodus 15 itself that Moses was anticipating greater deliverances to flow because God had done the work that he did at the first exodus. That the song he sings itself sets us up to anticipate greater deliverances that would, in light of the whole story of redemption, culminate in the greatest deliverance that Jesus would bring at the cross.

TK: And of course, if we’re saying this, if Moses saw something that you’re going to present and he wrote it down—he’s doing it for a reason. He wants his people to see the exact same thing.

JD: That’s right. He wants them to recognize, if indeed God has conquered the greatest enemy on the planet, how much more can we expect that he’ll address every other need that we have as a people. It’s an argument from greater to the lesser. So the greatest act of deliverance in the entire Old Testament is this exodus experience, and it foreshadows something greater. And he wants his people to to anticipate that if God’s done this, he’s going to do everything else that he’s promised.

TK: OK, well get us there.

JD: Awesome. So, this song we know was sung by Moses and the people of Israel right after God had delivered them from Pharaoh and his armies. Right after chapter 14 comes to an end, which narrates the great deliverance: the waters parted like a wall of water on each side of Israel, they walk through the great sea on dry ground, the Egyptian army follows them in, and God allows that water to fall. And then we read, “Israel saw the great power that the Lord used against the Egyptians, and so it was that the people feared Yahweh, and they believed in both Yahweh and in his servant Moses. Then Moses and the people of Israel”—right there on the banks of the sea—”sang this song to the Lord” (Exod 14:31–15:1). And we’re going to walk through this song a little bit more today. But before we do, I want us to see what takes place directly after the song is recorded. It says Moses…

TK: Oh, so the end you’re talking—the end, then of chapter the song part at 15.

JD: Yep, that’s right. So it says—it’s intriguing verse 19, right after the poetry is done, we return to the form of a narrative in our Bible, the poetry is set apart. There’s a lot more white space and indentation when it’s recording the song itself, but then we return to the story and the first word of verse 19 is “for”—that means verse 19 is providing a reason for something. And what it’s providing a reason for is verse 1. Moses and the people of Israel sang this song to the Lord “For”—or because—”when the horses of Pharaoh and his chariots and his horsemen went into the sea, the Lord brought back the waters of the sea upon them, but the people of Israel walked on dry ground in the midst of the sea. Then Miriam the prophetess, the sister of Aaron, took a tambourine in her hand, and all the women went out after her with tambourines and dancing. And Miriam sang to them: ‘Sing to the Lord, for he has triumphed gloriously; the horse and the rider he has thrown into the sea” (Exod 15:19–21). Why did Moses and all the people sing the song? Because God had brought a great deliverance, and then Moses’s sister, Miriam the prophetess—and I think that’s going to be a very important little bit of information that helps us enter into the song and read it the right way. There’s prophecy that happens in the song.

TK: And how many prophetesses do we have before this point?

JD: I don’t know of any other prophetesses that we have had. Abraham is a prophet, Moses is a prophet between the two of them. Actually, after this text Balaam will be a prophet in the same days as Moses. But Miriam is, as I recall it, the very first of the Bible’s prophetesses. And we want to ask why does Moses, who’s narrating this event for us, tell us that the writer of this song—he and the rest of the people sang Miriam’s music—that Miriam was a prophetess. Why does he tell us that bit of information? I think her prophecy in this song, ultimately, building off of our last podcast, anticipates the great saving deliverance of Jesus himself.

TK: It’s beautiful.

JD: So we enter into this song. The first five verses are really a testimony. The people are saying, I’m gonna sing to the Lord because he’s done great things. And then we find out in verses 6 through 18 what it is that they’re singing. But already their music has started. But they’re telling us, we’re going to testify—give a testimony of praise to God, and then they begin to utter those praises beginning in verse 6. So in verses 1 through 5, it’s saying we’re going to talk about God and the great things he has done. And then in verse 6, they begin to talk to God and give him praise for the great deliverance. So why don’t we just walk through for our readers, the first five verses let them hear the words of this music. And then we’ll note the transition to when they actually start praising him. And there’s two parts to this praise, and that becomes very significant.

TK: Sounds good. Now I was going to say I’m just looking at my Bible as we’re doing this. I think if you’re somebody who does it, it would help you to write down in the margin the other places where you’re going to find these verses. It’s just such a help to be able to say, hey, this is quoted in this particular spot wherever it is. But I’ll start reading, “I will sing to the Lord, for he has triumphed gloriously; the horse and his rider he has thrown into the sea. The Lord is my strength and my song, and he has become my salvation; this is my God, and I will praise him, my father’s God. and I will exalt him. The Lord is a man of war; the Lord is his name. Pharaoh’s chariots and his host he cast into the sea and his chosen officers were sunk into the Red Sea. The floods covered them; they went down into the into the depths like a stone” (Exod 15:1–5).

JD: Yeah, there we go. Yahweh is a man of war. Even that language of picturing the God of heaven and earth, like a warrior—that’s poetic language. It really captures the heart and gives a vision of God before us. And to know that that warrior entered into space and time to save me—that’s what Moses and the people are saying: he entered in and, therefore, I am going to testify that he is this kind of a great God. And what we have to step back and recognize is that the enemy that Yahweh just destroyed in the waters—that these people are singing about the enemy was considered the greatest superpower on the planet. In our day, it would be the equivalent of either the United States or China or Russia. Those three main spheres of massive, even nuclear power. God has just in a single day in a single instant, overcome the greatest enemy known to man in that day. Yahweh has proved his greatness in overcoming Pharaoh and his chariots, and then it’s in verse 6 that the poetry really kicks in and it’s just beautiful testimony to the warrior God. And so we’re going to work through verses 6 through 10. And as Tom reads these verses, I just want us to think about who are these verses focused on; who was the enemy and how is God being portrayed as a man of war in these few verses?

TK: “Your right hand, O Lord, glorious in power, your right hand, O Lord, shatters the enemy. In the greatness of your majesty, you overthrow your adversaries; you send out your fury; it consumes them like stubble. At the blast of your nostrils the waters piled up; the flood stood up in a heap; the deeps congealed in the heart of the sea. The enemy said, ‘I will pursue, I will overtake, I will divide the spoil, my desire shall have its fill of them. I will draw my sword; my hand shall destroy them.’ You blew with your wind; the sea covered the; they sank like lead in the mighty waters” (Exod 15:6–10). You want me to go on?

JD: No, just reflect on that Tom, regarding the enemy and the portrayal of God in this poetic language.

TK: It’s, uh, it’s interesting reading this. It also—I wanted to ask you about this—it reminds me of another poem. It reminds me of the book of Judges—Judges chapter 5, actually—when I think it’s Sisera, isn’t it who is killed, and he sinks down like a stone as well. That picture of an enemy who is so powerful no one can touch him. Yet God has delivered. And it’s saying here that the enemy is saying that I will take everything; I will consume them and destroy them, and it’s at my at my might so I can do whatever I want to do. No one can resist this enemy.

JD: So he’s got massive words, and yet God simply blows with his mouth. His wind comes forth and the sea covers the enemy, and they sank like lead. I mean, it’s just awesome. The caustic pride, arrogance of enemy Egypt, and with a single breath God brings them down as the waters of the sea overwhelm them. Very different than the picture of baptism, for example, wherein we go down under the water and die with Christ, but then rise. There was no rising for the Egyptians. The Israelites came through what were indeed waters of judgment, and yet the Egyptians did not. They stayed dead under the wrath of God. So that’s one side and I want us to picture that side of the poem as praise is given, like one wall of water. And that one wall of giant judgment water is now going to be paralleled by another wall of watery judgment. But it’s not going to portray the Egyptians. Indeed, it’s going to portray all of Israel’s other enemies. And right in the middle is the greatness of God. So read for us now, Tom, just 11 through 18.

TK: All right. Starting in verse 11, “Who is like you, O Lord among the gods? Who is like you, majestic in holiness, awesome in glorious deeds, doing wonders? You stretched out your right hand; the earth swallowed them. You have led in your steadfast love the people whom you have redeemed; you’ve guided them by your strength to your holy abode” (Exod 15:11–13). That’s interesting right there—we’re getting something that Moses is speaking as if it’s already accomplished. And reading the story, you’d say you haven’t gone anywhere yet, you’ve just come through the sea, but you’re speaking as if it’s done. The peoples have heard and you think, well, who has heard anything yet? Nobody had time to hear anything. “The peoples have heard; they tremble; pangs have seized the inhabitants of Philistia. Now are the chiefs of Edom dismayed; trembling seizes the leaders of Moab; all the inhabitants of Canaan have melted away. Terror and dread fall upon them because of the greatness of your arm, they are still as a stone till your people, O Lord, pass by, till the people pass by whom you have purchased. You will bring them in and plant them on your own mountain, the place, O Lord, which you have made for your abode, the sanctuary, O Lord, which your hands have established. The Lord will reign forever and ever” (Exod 15:13–18).

JD: So, right after praising God for his triumph over the Egyptians, a series of questions are asked in verse 11: “Who is like you, O Yahweh, among the gods? Who is like you, majestic in holiness, awesome and glorious deeds doing wonders.” God, right after this great portrayal of judgment, is just exalted as the great holy One who’s done wonderful things, who’s proven his superiority. Remember Egypt followed all kinds of gods. And they attached all those gods to different elements of creation, the Nile River, the sun, the storms, the hail, the cattle. They worshipped all these things. And yet Yahweh, through the plagues, showed his supremacy. There is no God like Yahweh. He is holy, he is wondrous, and it’s that God that Israel followed who sees that they went on dry ground as he worked his greatness on their behalf.

And yet the second half, as Tom drew attention, the second half—like another wall of judgment—acts as though more deliverances have already happened. God has led us to his holy abode. You, O God, have led us there, and fear has seized. And then we get a list of all the peoples that Israel is going to meet in route to the promised land. But like you said, they’re singing this song on the banks of the sea. They haven’t even arrived there yet, and yet they’re singing praises as if all of that deliverance and great conquest has already happened. But we know that it hasn’t happened because then in verse 17 it puts it back into the future: “You will bring [your people] in and plant them on your holy mountain, the place, O Lord, which you have made for your abode, the sanctuary, O Lord, which your hands have established.” It’s still future. And yet it’s so certain that he and the people, Moses and the people can sing about it as if it’s already happened. What that suggests is that Moses or Miriam the prophetess, was already viewing the exodus—the first exodus—as a type, that is, as a pattern that by its very nature set in motion a cycle of events all of which included great deliverance moments. It set in motion—or it was one benchmark on an entire program of God that included event after event that anticipates a greater deliverance. Moses was already viewing the exodus as a type or a figure of more deliverances.

TK: And he’s picturing here, it sure seems like, a successful planting on God’s mountain.

JD: That’s right. And even that language of God’s mountain recalls the Garden of Eden, where the garden had a river flowing through it, and then from it sprung four rivers that went to the major other corners of the globe. That is, for the rivers to flow out of Eden and reach these major areas, Eden must have been on a mountain. That’s where God’s presence was. That’s where God is going to now move his people again. He’s going to return them to his holy mountain, where they can enjoy his presence. But what it will take is an overcoming of an enemy. And because God overcame the pharaoh and his armies, Israel can be certain that future deliverance and victory is going to come.

TK: Just a note here Jason, the name Yahweh is shortened in poetry, sometimes to just Yah. Can you talk a little bit about that. And it the reason I bring it up is it appears in this song.

JD: It does. Yahweh’s name is shortened. I’m actually looking to see exactly where it happens. Do you have it right in front of you, Tom?

TK: No, just a note in verse 2 so, but I’m not looking at my Hebrew text. I’m just looking at my English.

JD: Yep, it actually—you’re absolutely right. And it’s even in a portion that in Isaiah 12, which we covered in the last podcast, it includes the shortened form. So you have Yahweh, yah-weh in Hebrew is how it would come out —yah-weh. And the shortened form is just, Yah. And it does show up in poetry. The term, the name Yahweh, is related to the verb of being, that is: am, is, our, was, were, be, being, or been. “He is.” But that would be, yih-weh, yih-weh would be what “he is” or “he will be” would sound like. But because there’s that a vowel—ya, ya— it suggests the name actually means “he causes to be everything.” Everything that is not God, he causes. And his name as his people testify it—Yahweh, Yah—we’re proclaiming him as the great causer of all things.

And in the book of Exodus we see the name Yahweh focused on a lot. “Who’s made man’s mouth”—Moses—”who makes him deaf and dumb and seeing and blind? Is it not, I, Yahweh?” (Exod 4:11). Yahweh is the one who hardens and softens hearts in Exodus. Yahweh is the one who controls creation as he guides the plagues. Yahweh is the one who raises up Pharaoh for his specific purposes, and he is the one who fights on behalf of Israel. He is the causer, and in this song, Yahweh’s name, either in its full form or in its shortened form, shows up many times. In each instance, whether in the full form or in the shortened form, it’s celebrating the absolute sovereignty of God over all things. So you get a capture of his name when it says in verse 11, “Who is like you, O Yahweh, among the gods?”—the great causer of all things—”Who is like you, majestic in holiness, awesome in glorious deeds, doing wonders?” You are the great causer of all and you’ve proven it to us through the exodus.

TK: To have a causer of all things, the causer, on your side is just amazing—that God would be on our side.

JD: It’s that God that reigns forever and ever. And the deliverance we touched on this last podcast—the deliverance of the exodus—it’s not just of a people, Israel, being delivered by Yahweh over Pharaoh. Pharaoh in this book is portrayed as a serpent-king and, as such, it recalls—reaches back to Genesis 3, where the great serpent, the evil one, is told the offspring of the woman is going to destroy you. And it points forward, then to the even greater exodus that Christ would bring that we touched on last podcast. The even greater exodus, where the serpent himself will be crushed underneath the feet of the Lamb and of his people. And Tom, how about you take us, as we close this podcast out, to Luke chapter 9? And note for us how this whole event, the exodus and reading the exodus typologically as a type as a picture of a greater exodus, how it’s picked up then at the mount of Transfiguration with Jesus? I’m thinking specifically of Luke 9:31.

TK: Yeah. So this is—I have a whole chunk here, verses 28–36, just labeled the transfiguration in my Bible. This is the event where Jesus, with Peter and John and James, went up on the mountain to pray. Actually interesting—even the passage we just came to where God is planting his people on his mountain. Isaiah talked about the same language. Jason, would you say this is deliberately echoing that mountain idea that we saw in Exodus as well?

JD: I do think so. I think that the imagery of the mountain in the Gospels is very intentional to recall acts of Moses and the promises associated with God’s mountain that we read through the Old Testament.

TK: We’re already echoing something, I totally agree. We’re already echoing something. So they went up to the mountain, “And as he was praying”—verse 29—”the appearance of his face was altered, and his clothing became dazzling white. And behold, two men were talking with him, Moses and Elijah, who appeared in glory and spoke of his departure” (Luke 9:29–31). And then I have a little footnote there, and the footnote just says Greek “Exodus.” It would actually help, I think, us get there quicker if the word exodus just was there, because it would help us make a natural connection—is they’re talking about an exodus. Obviously not the first exodus, but they’re talking about another exodus. But they’re talking about his exodus.

JD: That’s going to happen in Jerusalem. And it’s Moses—Moses is the one who’s talking about it. Jesus has an exodus to undergo in Jerusalem. He’s going to accomplish it. And Peter, James and John are getting to listen in on this conversation.

TK: And obviously a lot more could be said about those two. It’s quite significant that the voice from heaven. So God the Father does not even talk about Moses and Elijah, all he says is, “This is my son… Listen to him” (Luke 9:35). So doesn’t even refer to Moses or Elijah, but at this spot that Jesus is transformed into heavenly appearance and his manifesting his glory, and they’re talking about his exodus. So again, going back to that song, that deliverance, knowing that our Lord is going to be experiencing shortly here his own exodus.

And we were talking about something earlier, but we should touch on it, even though we’re going to be going maybe a touch long. But maybe this would be a good spot to go to, Psalm 18, Jason and just talk about what you were saying to me. I’ve been reading it this morning. And this also refers to Exodus 15.

JD: Yes, it does. And Psalm 18 is one of those psalms that we find in two different spots in our Bible. We find it in 2 Samuel 22 and here in the Psalter. And it magnifies the great anointed King and the work that he will do—this Messianic, royal figure who is going to triumph, have a reign that will extend to the ends of the earth. That’s how the psalmists portray this royal figure. His reign will be complete. His justice will be absolutely pure. His righteousness will be impeccable. And yet he will only triumph through a great tribulation. And Psalm 18 portrays that tribulation as a journey through God’s waters of judgment, and then a great deliverance. Why don’t you pick up from there?

TK: Well, what we were talking about is verse 15 where it’s talking about the Lord and his work and it says, “Then the channels of the sea were seen, and the foundations of the world were laid bare at your rebuke, O Lord, at the blast of the breath of your nostrils. He sent from on high, he took me; he drew me out of many waters. He rescued me from my strong enemy” (Ps 18:15–17). Thinking about lots of places we could go, even here says in verse 20 “The Lord dealt with me according to my righteousness, according to the cleanness of my hands he rewarded me.” That this one was saved in this Exodus event because of his own righteousness, which clearly does not define me.

JD: It’s a beautiful anticipation of the journey Christ would undergo on our behalf. The judgment of God in a fury parallel to the first exodus, using the language so comparable to Exodus 15, Yahweh’s thundering from the heavens, lightning flashes, the channels of the sea, the foundations of the world laid bare, the very breath of God’s nostrils blowing. And yet out of that, God taking this royal figure, drawing him out of the waters, delivering him, rescuing him from the strong enemy. This is exodus imagery, and both of us believe that Psalm 18—when David wrote it, he was intentionally anticipating the great tribulation that would lead to the exalted triumph of the Messiah himself. Peter tells us in Acts 2 David was a prophet (Acts 2:30), and he anticipated the great work of the Messiah, the judgment he would undergo, and the victory he would enjoy all by God’s work. It’s like the Messiah is Israel being delivered from the great enemy of death itself on behalf of his own offspring. And from him, out of this watery chaos comes a new creation. He leads the way and from him a new people is birthed. It’s all imagery that parallels and was set forth first in Exodus 14 and 15, anticipating the greater work that Moses talked with Jesus about at the Mount of Transfiguration and that David for himself foresees for the Christ in Psalm 18.

TK: Yeah, talking about his exodus.

JD: That’s right. That’s right. I think that’s a great place to stop for today.

TK: Yeah, I was just going to add the same way Exodus 15 had kind of a two-part thing, their deliverance, and then a conquering theme of nations. And you saw it. You see the same thing in the Psalm as he is delivered and then we get to a spot where he is now going to battle and enemies are falling at the end of this Psalm. So again you can anticipate, OK, if this is an exodus event, I know based on the first one, the sort of things I’d be looking for. I would be looking for you to to be conquering and to be setting your people in a safe place where they can flourish.

JD: That’s good. I’ll just say as we close, I’ve got a footnote in Psalm 18:15 right next to “the breath of your nostrils, O God, the waters fled”—it sends me to Exodus 15:8. Just using our Bibles as tools to help us understand how the whole hangs together. We’re going to close out this podcast. We thank you for joining us. Hope your your heart is burning with greater delight in Jesus and greater hunger to know his word, thanks for joining us.

JY: Thanks for joining us for Gear Talk. If you have questions about biblical theology you’d like us to address on future episodes, e-mail us at [email protected]. Also check out HandstothePlow.org for resources designed to help you understand the Bible and its teachings.