JY: Welcome to GearTalk, a podcast on biblical theology. Today, we’re continuing our conversation about the new church plant Jason is involved with: Sovereign Joy Baptist Church. As we mentioned last week, the name Sovereign Joy says something about God’s joy in his people and about his people’s joy in him. Today, Tom and Jason reflect on God’s joy in his people. We’re doing something a little different today. After a short introduction, we’re going to play a short sermon from Jason on this topic. Then, Tom and Jason come back and reflect on the sermon.

TK: Welcome to GearTalk, Tom and Jason here. We are talking today about Sovereign Joy. Jason?

JD: Sovereign Joy Baptist Church and about the church broader. It’s our desire that what we’re talking about these weeks and reflecting on this new church plant that I am a part of in Kansas City. We’re hoping that it will serve the broader church in helping those who are believers who are part of local church bodies. Think more about how God thinks about the church. We’re hoping it will be a blessing to many and even enliven those who are ministers right now in various contexts, to enliven them to be reminded and refueled in what God has called the church to be and to do.

TK: So, last week we talked about the name and I asked you and I knew this from just talking together, but tell me the importance of this name. It’s obviously more than just you’re looking for a name for a church. It means something to you. And you kind of said there’s two sides to the Sovereign Joy idea. So, can you summarize that real quick before we dive into what we’re going to do today? Sure, Sovereign Joy, the name of our new church, is presented from two different perspectives. The joy of the Sovereign One and the people’s joy in the Sovereign One. So, God’s joy that God’s all that he does, but specifically his joy in his people, we are his treasured possession. That’s God’s language for his bride. And then on the flip side, he is our greatest treasure, a pearl of great price. Nothing comparable in all reality to the ultimate value, wonder, beauty, goodness of God himself. And our hearts will be most satisfied when we find our greatest pleasure in God as his treasure. So, we thought it would be good to reflect on this a little bit further. And so, two of the messages that I gave this summer to this flock approached this concept of Sovereign Joy from those two different sides. So, the first message today is from Isaiah 53. I’ve titled it “The Gospel, Missions and Sovereign Joy.” And as people listen, I want them to be thinking about Sovereign Joy from the perspective of the Sovereign’s joy. What does God take pleasure in according to this text? That’s where I want people’s ears to be attuned. We’re going to listen. The message is only 15 or so minutes long. And then after that, you and I, I’ll come back together, Tom, and reflect on what we’ve heard.

TK: Sounds good. So, we’re going to play that message just for us as we imagine that we are here hearing you. Can you give us an idea of how many people were there in the setting for this?

JD: Yes, we’re looking at 40 people, at this message, 40 people who are some of whom are drenched with rain. As we poured, we jumped out of our outside backyard into our living room. When we expected, we were hoping to be gathered in our backyard and it didn’t work out that way. The Lord had other weather plans. And so, people are both dripping with sweat. It was in the high 90s and we are, some people are wet from the rain. We are packed into our own house’s living room at this point and having just had some time in prayer and in singing. And now we are ready to hear from God’s Word.

TK: All right. All right. I can picture it right now and having heard it. This will be a blessing. So, we’re going to play this right now and just looking to what, what are we seeing about God’s joy in this passage?

JD: I’m delighted that you’re all here this evening. Pastor Charles and I celebrate what God is doing with Sovereign Joy Baptist Church. At these summer gatherings, we’re considering foundational texts that shape the identity of Sovereign Joy Baptist Church. And tonight, I want to meditate on Isaiah 53, 10 and 11, which helps us consider how Christ’s substitutionary sacrifice is related to making disciples of all nations. This good news and this mission to the many are truly central to what we long to be as a church. So find in your Bible, Isaiah 53, one of the Old Testament’s greatest depictions of the gospel for the many. And as you turn there, pray with me. Lord, in these brief moments that we’ve set aside to meditate on your book. Grant us light that we may see, humility that we may receive and hunger that we may grow. I pray this through Jesus our only Savior, Amen. Isaiah 52, 13 through 53, 12. It’s the last of Isaiah’s four servant songs, poems that apply the title, servant to God’s promised coming royal deliverer, whom we know of as Jesus. In this last song, both God and his prophet clarify how ungodly sinners from many nations can be declared right with God through the victorious, substitutionary sacrifice of the servant. This whole chapter is focused on the mission of the Messiah Jesus, whom Isaiah earlier names Emmanuel, God with us, Isaiah 7:14. He names him everlasting Father, who will rule on David’s throne, Isaiah 9:6. And then in our passage in 52, 13, he is the one who will be high and lifted up and shall be exalted. So picking up at the end of 53, verse 9, look with me there, Isaiah says, “He had done no violence, and there was no deceit in his mouth, yet it was the will of the Lord to crush him. He has put him to grief, when his soul makes an offering for guilt, he shall see his offspring, he shall prolong his days, the will of the Lord shall prosper in his hand out of the anguish of his soul, he shall see and be satisfied.” Beginning in verse 10, note first this contrast, signaled by the word “yet.” This person, marred beyond human semblance, we’re told in 52:14. Committed no sin, neither was deceit found in his mouth, yet verse 10 declares it was the will of the Lord to crush him. He has put him to grief. The contrast emphasizes that this man, the servant of God himself whom God would crush, did not himself deserve to die, yet God purposed that he would serve as a substitute sacrifice, dying not for his own sin, but bearing the just wrath of God on behalf of others. In the words of 53 verse 5, “He was pierced for our transgressions. He was crushed” using the same word as our passage “for our iniquities upon him was the chastisement that brought us peace and with his wounds, we’re healed.”

But now consider the irony in verse 10. What is it that pleases God? What is he desire to do? My ESV reads, “Yet it was the will of the Lord to crush him. He has put him to grief.” Isaiah uses the term “crush.” To speak of the way, the powerful in Israel society were oppressing the poor, even grinding their faces in the dust. Isaiah 3:15. The prophet also compares the leaders in Egypt to pillars like those that would hold up a building. But these pillars will be crushed in Yahweh’s judgment. Isaiah 19:10. Finally, a heart that is crushed is one that is contrite, lowly, humble Isaiah 57:15. Word for word, the text here says Yahweh desired his crushing. He wounded. Or as the Christian Standard Bible translates, “Yet the Lord was pleased to crush him severely.” The death of Christ doesn’t happen randomly. Indeed, the decisive agent in Jesus’ death is not the wicked Romans or the seething, conniving Jewish leaders. In Peter’s words, talking to God, Acts chapter 4, he says, “In this city, there were gathered together against your holy servant Jesus, whom you anointed, both herod and Pontius Pilate, along with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, to do whatever your hand, O God. And your plan had predestined to take place,” Acts 4, 27 and 28. Earlier in Isaiah, using the same verb, God declared, “I do not delight in the blood of bulls or of lambs or of goats,” Isaiah 1:11. But now we learn that there is a sacrifice in which God does delight, namely the crushing of his Son. But this is not divine child abuse. No, this is the offering of a willing substitute to bear the wrath of God against sinners. This is the love of God. And it was for a purpose, not simply to see the penalty of sin canceled, but the power of sin destroyed. And a new people shaped for the sake of God’s name. Look with me at what comes next. “When his soul makes an offering for guilt, he shall see his offspring. He shall prolong his days, the will of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.” God was pleased to send his Son as a lamb that is led to the slaughter, 53-7. And as a substitutionary sacrificial offering for guilt, 53-10, why? Because of what would result. And here we read three specific results, all of which imply the resurrection of this once dead sacrifice. Look initially at the second of these results, the very one who is crushed under God’s hammer will prolong his days. A phrase that recalls the promise of Deuteronomy 17:20 that the king who is faithful would enjoy extended days over his kingdom. And Jesus has created a kingdom that will never end. The third result, the very pleasure of God that brought the servant’s death, will now move through that death and become something that will flourish in the servant’s hand. God’s purpose did not stop with the darkness of Friday’s cross, but instead pushed through the rise of the Son on Sunday beyond to all that the resurrection would accomplish. Yet now I want to focus on the first promised result. Look with me. If his soul becomes a guilt offering, bearing the sins of many, then he will see offspring. Sight is a sense that only living people enjoy. So if operating as an offering for guilt requires the substitute’s death, seeing must require his resurrection. The Messianic servant would die, but he would also rise to see offspring. Some 750 years before Jesus, God placed his Word, a conditional promise that would motivate the Messiah’s perfect obedience even unto death, death on a cross. Because Jesus never married a physical bride, these offspring must be spiritual seed. And they would become his children because of his sacrificial substitutionary work. So who are these offspring? The surrounding context makes it absolutely clear. First, they are many nations whom his atoning blood will sprinkle. Look back at 52, 14, and 15. So comparing the exile of the nation of Israel to Jesus’s curse-bearing death, the text reads, “As many as were astonished at you, O nation of Israel. His appearance was so marred beyond human semblance, and his form beyond that of the children of mankind. So he shall sprinkle many nations.” his sprinkling, likely recalls how sacrificial blood was sprinkled on the priests to declare their cleansing from sin and to consecrate them to their special office. Exodus 29:21, Leviticus 8:30. But now, Christ’s substitutionary death, the sprinkling of his own blood will create a new set of priests from many nations. And these priests will now mediate the presence of God to the world and point the world to the ultimate substitute sacrifice. Second, who are these offspring? The Messiah’s offspring are the many that the righteous servant will account righteous. Look at the second half of Isaiah 53:11. God declares, “By his knowledge shall the righteous one, My servant make many to be accounted righteous, and he shall bear their iniquities.” By his knowledge, that is, he understands what’s going on. This is a willing sacrifice. And what this text points to is the great legal exchange that stands at the core of the gospel. Our sins placed on Christ and his righteousness counted as ours. In Paul’s words from Romans 5:19, “As by the one man Adam’s disobedience, the many were made sinners, so by the one man Jesus’ obedience, the many will be made righteous.” So, who are the servant’s offspring? They are some from the many nations whom he will set aside as priestly mediators between God and man. Who are these offspring? They are the many whom he will account righteous through his own substitutionary sacrifice, bearing their sins and counting his righteousness as theirs. Now, look back at the beginning of verse 11, which I believe includes the prophet’s final reflections before Yahweh again speaks about his servant, Isaiah comments.

Now, the translators of the New International Version and the Christian Standard Bible sense the need for the servant to see something. So they follow a tradition of adding “light” into the text, but the word “light” is not in the standard Hebrew text. Instead, what we read is simply this, “Out of the anguish of his soul, he shall see. He shall be satisfied.” In context, what is it that the servant will see? Well, the previous verse told us, what is it? Yes, he shall see offspring. And what will be the result? he shall be satisfied. Isaiah 53:10 and 11 includes two amazing portraits of sovereign joy. First, it pleased the Lord to crush his Son. Why? Because there was an even greater pleasure that only the death of his Son made possible. “If his soul makes an offering for guilt, he shall see offspring. He shall be satisfied.” There was a joy that was set before Christ at the cross. And that joy was a people, a great cloud of saints bearing witness to his worth that you and I get to join when Jesus acts as the founder and the perfecter of our faith, Hebrews 12. In Revelation, John speaks of everyone whose name was written before the foundation of the world in the book of the life of the Lamb who was slain, Revelation 13:8. Before the world’s foundations, before time and space, God had already purposed to crush his Son so that through his death he might save all whose names were written in the book of life. To save Kenneth and Meghan, to save Anthony and Stephanie, to save Isaac and Caleb, Silas, Josiah, Joy, Joey, to save Billy and Ellie, to save Levi and Hannah. Names written in the Lamb’s book of life before the foundation of the world. Your personal salvation joyfully motivated Christ to endure the cross. Because God was pleased to crush his Son, Christ is now pleased to save sinners like you and like me. And this hope stands at the core of Sovereign Joy Baptist Church. O praise the One who paid my debt and raised this life from the dead. Amen. Amen.

TK: Jason, why did you pick this? Why did you pick Isaiah 53:10 and 11? Obviously, we have a big, big Bible, all sorts of thoughts, but what was it about this passage that you felt captured God’s joy in his people?

JD: Tom, I was drawn to this passage because it is one of the clearest gospel passages in all of Scripture and just celebrating good news. And you’re even including the New Testament in that. That’s right. We have good news that a reigning God saves and satisfies sinners who believe through Christ’s life, death and resurrection. And in this passage, the humble servant comes and dies, becomes a guilt offering, and he does so for joy that is set before him. Even before the joy of the Son in the sight of the saints, there was a greater joy, a preceding joy that God had in crushing his Son. I mentioned it in part of the message. But in Isaiah chapter 1, we read God’s declaration over Israel. He simply says, “What to me is the multitude of your sacrifices, says Yahweh. I have had enough of burnt offerings of rams and the fat of well-fed beasts. I do not delight or take pleasure in the blood of bulls or of lambs or of goats.” Isaiah 1:11. God didn’t take pleasure in the sacrifices all the people were bringing. But now Isaiah 53:10 opens and says—we’re in the ESV—it says, “It was the will of the Lord to crush him.” That’s the exact same term that we see in Isaiah 1:11 rendered “delight.” It was the delight of the Lord to crush him. And so it was those two factors trying to understand God’s pleasure in his people. And this text presents it from two sides. The pleasure of God in sending his Son to die a sinner’s death. But the pleasure of God in being willing to die a sinner’s death in order to see offspring. And what I’d draw your attention to is that, I mean, in my ESV, it puts an and after the second “see” verb in verse 11, “Out of the anguish of his soul, this servant, Jesus, will see.” But the previous verse told us what he sees. He sees offspring. And then in the Hebrew text, it just says—it’s like a comma, “He will see, he will be satisfied.” And I took that to mean his satisfaction, a satisfaction that’s ultimately motivating him. I mean, it’s just beautiful, Tom, 750 years before Jesus. God tells us, and ultimately even told Jesus, what motivation there was for pushing ahead to the cross, that he would see offspring, he would be satisfied. So the pleasure of God took Jesus to the cross, and the pleasure that motivated Jesus through his suffering was a people. And so within a church where we want to celebrate the gospel, we want to celebrate God’s pleasure in his people, I could think of very little texts that would have captured it so well, and that’s why I went to this passage. And then there’s that added component of missions, which we pray is just pervasive across our church activity. And I think that missions is in this text, but we can talk about that further. So the gospel and sovereign joy drew me to this text, and then with it, I think there’s this an accompanying thought of missions.

TK: I think for so many of us, this is such an important thing that we can live with. I mentioned it last week, a thought that God is perpetually disappointed in his people and not satisfied, not finding delight in his children, because we obviously see our own failures, and we see weakness, things that we wish were different. And so this idea of sovereign joy is something I think we have to fight for through faith and say, no, this is the reality of what God sees in his people.

JD: That’s right, Tom. And I’m just so encouraged, even as I—like those words, those are the words of the prophet. He’s reflecting on what God has shown him to be true. It was the will of Yahweh to crush the servant. God put him to grief when his soul makes an offering for guilt. He shall see offspring, prolong his days, and the will of Yahweh would prosper in his hand. Out of the anguish of his soul, he will see. He will be satisfied.

And then immediately, as if answering the very dilemma that you’re raising, I can see the reader saying, “How could God, how could the Messiah, God, through the Messiah, be satisfied in a people who are so burdened down with the cares of this world, so overcome by the sins that we ourselves are a part of? We are still imperfect. We’re still struggling with bitterness or with prejudice, with fear and anxiety, with lust and laziness. That’s still our story. How could he really be pleased with us?”

And then God is the one who speaks directly after this in the passage. And he says, “By his knowledge, shall the righteous one, my servant, make many to be accounted righteous, and he will bear their iniquities.”

I just love it, Tom, growing right out of this statement, “He shall see, he shall be satisfied.” God enters in, his voice speaks. And what he declares is this remarkable, legal exchange, this great exchange of the ages where our iniquities, our sins, our failures, they get placed onto Jesus. He bears them. But then what we get to bear, it says, “My servant will make many to be accounted righteous.” And his title is “the Righteous One.” So what that means is we are clothed with his righteousness, even as he gets clothed with our sin.

And so we wonder how is it that God can be pleased with the people? How can Jesus look upon us and be satisfied? It’s because our sins have been addressed. And so we now in Jesus can stand blameless before our Savior, completely free from condemnation. And this is indeed hope.

TK: I think sometimes we have a way of describing this, almost as if God truly doesn’t see us. But because he sees Christ, then he can have a view of me that doesn’t really correspond with reality. Almost like when you hold up a certain, like a clear, like a red film of some sort over something, and you can’t see certain colors behind it, you know, when you hold it up. And so you’re not really seeing reality. And I think some of us have had that thought is—well, the Lord is not actually seeing Tom, for instance. He’s seeing Tom through Christ, and therefore he can find satisfaction in that. But that’s not what this text is saying. It’s saying he actually bears our iniquity.

JD: It’s not that they’ve been clouded over, but they’re still there.

TK: Correct.

JD: But they’ve been removed.

TK: Correct.

JD: They’ve been taken from us and put on him so that now we are indeed blameless before our God. I think of Psalm 103. He does not deal with us according to our sins or repay us according to our iniquities “for”—here’s the rationale. How can I be certain? As high as the heavens are above the earth, so great is his steadfast love toward those who fear him. As far as the east is from the west, so far does he remove our transgressions from us? That’s our hope. That is our hope.

TK: And so he’s not looking at a people and saying, “I have got this sinful people who are part of my family now, and I’m just choosing to overlook because of Christ what they really are.” he’s saying, “No, I have a righteous people, and it gives me joy. It’s full new creation, and it is beautiful.”

I made a reference at the end of the sermon if people caught it to Hebrews chapter 12. And in this context, right after Hebrews 11, which people have called, you know, the great Hall of Faith, where there’s all these people who have declared throughout their lives that God is worth it. Come what may, I’m going to retain my faith in the living God.

And the text says some amazing things. “These all died in faith, not having received the things promised, but having seen them and greeted them from afar, having acknowledged that they were strangers and exiles on the earth,” or this talking about Moses, and what he endured in Egypt: “It says, he chose to be mistreated with the people of God rather than to enjoy the fleeting pleasures of sin.”

He considered, and then it’s amazing. This is Moses that we’re talking about. “He considered the reproach of Christ greater wealth than the treasures of Egypt, for he was looking to the reward.” Moses had in mind the Messiah, and it motivated him to endure.

We have all these people throughout the ages that have retained faith, and Hebrews 12 opens by saying, since you and I, Tom, and all of the church of the 21st century are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses. I’ve heard some talk about, they’ve pictured this somewhat like a colosseum, and Abraham and Ruth are up in the stands and we’re coming into the colosseum, and they’re cheering us on. They’re witnessing us, and I don’t think that’s the point.

These are people who were commended through their faith for holding fast to Christ. They were a great cloud of witnesses whose lives testified to the worth of Christ, and we’re surrounded by those who have testified to his worth even to the point of death. And it’s supposed to—their faith is supposed to motivate us, but then the writer of Hebrews moves on to say, so lay aside every weight and the sin that so closely entangles, and let us run with endurance the race set before us, looking to Jesus, and now he pulls us into the cloud of witnesses, “the founder and the perfector of our faith,” and then it says, “who for the joy set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is seated at the right hand of God.”

And in the context, I say, what is that joy? Who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross? And it seems to me most likely because he’s the founder and the perfector of our faith, he’s finding joy in founding and perfecting our faith in the same way that he found joy in creating this great cloud of witnesses. It’s the people that is at least a key aspect of the joy that was set before him.

And this is what motivates me then in missions because the rationale in the text is, consider him who endured from such sinners, from sinners such hostility against himself, so that you may not grow weary or faint-hearted. If it was a people that motivated Christ to endure his suffering, then we as his body should be motivated by a similar joy to endure our suffering.

And if, at least a key component of that joy is a people, all of a sudden, this motivates missions in the church. Joy, the same joy that motivated Jesus to endure the cross. He would see offspring. He would be satisfied. That same joy can now motivate we as the body of Christ to take up our cross and go to the hardest places on the planet, whether as senders or as goers to be fully invested in people’s lives who are distant from God, motivated by joy, the potential joy of seeing more of Christ’s bride embraced, more people saved and satisfied.

People that Jesus died to save, now we get to be his hands and feet, motivated by the same joy that led him to the cross. And that type of joy, I think this text is saying, can motivate amazing surrender, amazing risk in God’s church, because the one who’s orchestrating it all is God himself—His joy, motivating the sufferings of the Christ in order that he might be satisfied in those he saves.

And similarly, God, his pleasure in even allowing us to identify with the sufferings of Christ, so that through our suffering and our sharing, we might magnify the worth of Christ, bear witness, become part of the great cloud of witnesses, bear witness to the worth of Christ in the eyes of those who never got to see the cross, that they could see the love of God for them in action through our lives of surrender, and that what can motivate us now is even their joy, just as our joy motivated Christ.

TK: I think there is something, all of us feel it in, you walk into a room, you go somewhere, anywhere at a team, a business thing, and you can have a feeling of, “I don’t belong here, these aren’t my people.” Or a feeling of, “These are my people, and I can be myself, and the people are glad that I’m here, and I’m welcome.”

 And that really is what these texts are saying, is that God finds delight in a people created by this work of the sacrifice of his Son. It reminds me of Psalm 22, where Jesus says this from the cross, he says, “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?” And it’s not meaning that he doesn’t know. He knows very well why he’s on the cross, and he knows very well what is happening to him. He’s drawing attention to a whole poem, and what he’s wanting the people to do is to read the whole poem, and see why he is, why he is being forsaken at this moment, why he is being given over to something at this moment. But there comes a spot in the Psalm where he’s delivered, and it says in 21, the second half of 21, Psalm 22:21, “You have rescued me from the horns of the wild oxen,” and then immediately we get this delight in a people, and his delight in going to get the people. So he says, “I will tell of your name to my brothers in the midst of the congregation, I will praise you. You who fear the Lord praise him, all you offspring of Jacob glorify him, and stand in awe of him, all you offspring of Israel. For, he has not despised or abhorred the affliction of the afflicted. He has not hidden his face from him, but has heard when he cried to him, from you comes my praise in the great congregation. My vows, I will perform before those who fear him.” And then he says, “The afflicted shall eat and be satisfied.” I think this picture of him saving a people, and he saw it while he was on the cross. Why? This is happening. And I’m delighting in it, and I’m delighting in a whole people group that this work will create who will be glorifying God, and I will be calling them to that.

JD: What the law could not do, God did by sending his own Son. His initiative, his love, pursuing sinners, and it’s an awesome, awesome thing. I noted Revelation 13:8 in my message. I’m just astounded when I consider that there was a book written before time was. Written before the foundation of the world, a Book of Life, a Book of Life of the Lamb who was slain. That in the eternal mind of the living God, the cross was always there, a people to save was always there. And out of no need in himself, but out of an overflowing love, and delight to magnify his worth in the world, he sent his Son. To redeem a people for himself who would be for his glory. The great joy of God in redeeming saints like you and me for the sake of his name. And we can just praise the Lord for such heavenly joy, such sovereign joy, and stand in awe that part of that joy includes us as his treasure. That he truly does treasure us, and he’s able to do so justly if we confess our sins, he’s faithful and just. And then John goes on to say, “I write these things to you that you would not sin, but if you do sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ, the righteous one.” And it’s that righteous one who is standing in our stead, and whose righteousness has been declared over us. Our slate wiped clean, and all that positive imputation, that positive reckoning of his righteousness is now ours so that we can truly be counted the righteousness of God. God made him to be sin, who knew no sin, so that in him we might be the righteousness of God. And insofar as God takes pleasure in himself, he now looks upon us, blameless, declared righteous, truly. And he takes pleasure. And it’s amazing that the God of heaven and earth has worked to reconcile us to himself, overcoming the problem of our sin, no condemnation, now we dread. Jesus is all of—is there for us. We in him and he now ours completely for us, motivated by joy.

TK: It’s really, it is really good for us to reflect on, you said it last week, but the name Sovereign Joy, the Sovereign’s joy in his people. And may we, first of all, be found among that people. But second of all, see these texts and really grasp the reality God delights in me. He welcomes me to his presence. It’s not based on gifts that I have or things that I accomplish. It is based on the fact that because of the work of Jesus, I am part of his family, I am his Son, or his daughter. I’m welcome. And he finds joy in me. And we have that reflection in us when we think of any parent with their child. And if a parent would say, “I’m not very satisfied with my Son because he has not done well in a sporting event” or something, that sort of thing. Anyone would say, “Oh, you’ve thought about this all wrong,” but we do that to ourselves at times. And I think this message is saying, rest in God’s sovereign joy in his people. Receive it.

JD: Amen, Tom. Amen.

TK: Well, Jason, next week it will be great to see the second, the second half of this. Absolutely. So what is our joy?

JD: Look forward to it.

TK: All right. See ya. Thank you for joining us for GearTalk. For resources related to biblical theology, visit handstotheplow.org or jasonderouchie.com.